Trying to stop psoriasis from the inside

Posted Mon 31 Dec 2018 7.15am by Grandadbaz

Hi Everyone

New member & first post in this forum ,I’m 70 and the last fifteen years have been living with Eczema & psoriasis.

72 journeys to hospital for all over light therapy but like a lot of people now live with it using prescription topical gel.

Having tried many moisturisers came across one that can be used on newborn babies upward , Child’s Farm Sensertive moisturiser 98% natural ingredients, I’m not saying it’s a wonder treatment but really stops the itching to gain a good nights sleep.

I’m now trying to cure my problem from the inside out starting with the gut tract , I’m making my own home made Kefir , very cheap and has cleared a lot of the Eczema,lots of YouTube information regarding Kefir and how to make it.

The great Hippocrates once said, “all disease begins in the gut”.

If the walls of the gut are breached then the body overreacts , in our case Eczema & Psoriasis, hope this gut long repair works.

Regards to you all Grandadbaz

Posted Sun 6 Jan 2019 11.14pm by wendyloish

Hi Grandadbaz,

I am sorry no-one has responded to your posting. I noted it and am using what I call a "baby bum" cream as a moisturiser as well. It does double duty, because these creams have an antiseptic element as well, which is useful as scratching can often introduce bacteria into the skin.

Regarding the "gut hypothesis", I posted something on that in the chat section this week in response to a query by someone. It is called "Bacteria a cause or trigger?".

With respect to the kefir you mention, the process of making kefir involves the breakdown of lactose. Since introducing kefir into your diet have you cut down on consumption of milk of yoghurt? If so could it be that you are lactose intolerant?

All this being said, I have found that diet has been a key to symptom control and I have a raft of autoimmune problems besides just my skin. I am on a diet called FODMAP which cuts out all inflammation causing foods. It cuts out gluten containing grains, lactose and high fructose foods. It was developed by Monash University for irritable bowel syndrome, which it quickly resolves, but also over a 10 to 12 week period has an impact on inflammation throughout the body. So I would say, not all diseases begin in the gut, but certainly fixing it can have an impact on chronic diseases which mostly are associated with inflammation.

wendyloish

Posted Tue 8 Jan 2019 2.09pm by LcyB

Hi Grandadbaz and Wendy, I'm new to the group and this is my first posting! I started suffering from Psoriasis on my feet, in the summer. It's on my fingers too and is climbing up my leg. (I'm 58) It's just been positively diagnosed via a biopsy. I've done loads of research and am trying anything and everything I can. The first thing I started to do was make my own Kefir! I use goat's milk (have used oat but the lactose in goat does make for a better batch). I am pretty sure I feel better since I've started drinking 400 ml a day.

I hadn't thought of looking at the FODMAP diet, but of course, being antiinflammatory it makes sense.

I take various supplements - a multi vitamin, vitamin c, a fish oil, vitamin d spray and Turmuric with black pepper. I also take two drops of 1200 CBD oil. I've been using the Body Shop Hemp cream and alternating with Epaderm. I use Aveeno bath oils to wash and soak my feet with. Nothing really seems to help and I guess I'll never have baby soft feet again! Wish I'd appreciated them more!!

I've been looking at a product made by Dr JRK (Psorolin Oil etc) and might give their products a go.

It's a horrible disease and I'm really glad I've found this group.

Lucy

Posted Tue 8 Jan 2019 9.45pm by wendyloish

Hi LucyB,

If you have read many of the posts on the forum you will realise that many people have psoriasis from their childhood or teenage years. So only getting psoriasis at 58, you may in fact be lucky. Do you have other issues like arthritis and high blood pressure? I ask this because your feet and legs might be the main sufferers because they are at your extremity. A little thing that I do which may help is when sitting for any length of time I sit with my feet elevated to the same level as my heart. Of course exercise helps too, but doctors have been telling us that all our lives, and it is so easy to say, and so hard to do. For me, anyway. I am, I think, naturally lazy, and my spondititis (psoriatic arthritis in my spine) is a perfect excuse to avoid anything strenuous. I disco dance for an hour a week with the local U3A, and I think that helps.

wendyloish

Posted Wed 9 Jan 2019 1.39am by Grandadbaz

Hi peeps

Thank you for your response and thoughts , since posting on this forum I have been searching the internet for ideas and came across a guy named Dr John Bergman on YouTube he is primarily a chiropractor but his knowledge of how the body works and his conclusions seem pretty lodgical to me.

His thesis is that the brain , the gut ,and nervous system all work together in the body as a self healing echo system.

There are literally dozens of videos to view across all sorts of medical problems.

Just have a look and see if he makes sense to you.

Kind regards Grandadbaz

Posted Wed 9 Jan 2019 4.55am by wendyloish

Hi Grandadbaz,

First of all who is peeps?

Second of all, in the context of psoriatic arthritis and spondilitis, a chiropractor would be the last person from who I would take advice. Well, maybe not the last, but I think their spinal manipulation is potentially damaging in the context of arthritis.

Certainly I would, however, recommend an exploration of YouTube. But there, like here, you do not know what anyone's real knowledge is. The way I have found around this is to concentrate on TED and TEDx talks, as they are by scientists and researchers with recognised expertise. There is certainly a lot on YouTube about health and diet, espousing a great deal of conflicting theories. Vegetarian is best! Carnivore is best! Go for keto (high fat low carbs)! Fast, the longer the better! You will learn a lot, but it takes time and effort to sort the wheat from the chaff. Oh, wait a minute, if you are heeding my advice, the wheat is really bad for you!

My rule of thumb on all of this information is to crosscheck anything with google, particularly wikipedia. They are pretty reliable.

if you get nothing else out of this, you will be exercising your brain, which is a good thing.

wendyloish

Posted Wed 9 Jan 2019 5.52pm by Grandadbaz

Hello Wendy

Sorry I used the word peeps which is short for people in my vesinity , if you are offended my sinsere apology’s.

I thought this forum was a self help group to pass on any knowledge and to help each other where possible.

I never tried to make out John Bergman was the be all to medical problems , all I said was have a look and draw your own conclusions to me he makes a lot of sense

Since joining this group a short while ago I decided to join in and give my thoughts with two postings.

As from now on I will not be posting any more messages .

Regards to all other sufferers on this forum Grandadbaz 😕

Posted Wed 9 Jan 2019 9.38pm by wendyloish

Hi Grandadbaz,

Sorry! I would really not like you to feel that anything I said was meant as a personal criticism. Since joining this group I have often felt as you do now, but I look at it this way, my opinions are as valuable as anyone's. Please don't be put off by me. There is a spot in the top left hand of each posting where you can give people a thumbs up or down. I have had a few of each of those by now. No-one has given you even one thumbs down.

So please stay with us. And post again. There are a lot more people on this forum with questions, than there are with answers and the latter may not even have the right ones.

wendyloish

Posted Fri 11 Jan 2019 11.45pm by Christie

The best topical non prescription ointment I have found in my travels is bag balm. It works way better for me then any thing else as far as non prescriptive management goes. It is made for cows udders to deal with chapped tits. I swear by it!!!! It’s inexpensive and works the best for me. Bag balm-green can. Udder butter does not work as well!

Posted Sun 13 Jan 2019 10.59pm by Jeannette50

Hi Wendy,

I think it may be possible that strict adherence to diet and lifestyle may put some people in full remission for P not to recur again. Studies appear to have shown that our diets have altered our bodies environment and made our system too acidic. Certainly our diets do not provide enough vitamin D or magnesium (which are common deficiencies) and by the way magnesium needs to be taken with vitamin D as they work in conjunction - D being pretty useless without magnesium. Maybe following the various dietary options that are at the moment considered just to provide therapeutic benefits in the right combination would achieve complete remission. After all it is only in recent months that there has been acceptance of 'curing' diabetes 2 by losing weight. It is of course complex. If you look at the last link reinvolvement of both bacteria and fungus (which are the most devious of microbes that are the current concern of the medical profession), we all need to work on ensuring the integrity of skin from birth. Hope you find the links interesting.

Effects of Turmeric (Curcuma longa) on Skin Health: A Systematic Review of the Clinical Evidence.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27213821

https://www.psoriasis.org/advance/psoriasis-linked-metabolic-syndrome

Current knowledge on psoriasis and autoimmune diseases

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5683130/

Posted Mon 14 Jan 2019 1.05am by wendyloish

Hi Jeannette50,

Thanks for the info, which I have followed up. The tumeric thing I have already seen. In fact I have posted responses on tumeric as one of my sisters swears by it (actually I see it as an alternative anti-inflammatory to blueberries). Apparently the tumeric needs to be eaten with pepper as the latter has a chemical which enhances its uptake in the body.

I read the last reference you cited, and I have seen it before. But I reread it again. I found the constant use of acronyms made it difficult to follow in places, but on the whole it is a very good summation of the current research into the genetic and environmental causes of psoriasis. But most of all it excels in its analysis of the relationship between different autoimmune diseases.

I will look at the magnesium association. Interestingly, a few years ago when I has bloods done (associated with my gall bladder removal) I was found to be deficient in phosphate. I had never heard of that one, and have found little about it since. The only connection I found was the Vitamin D one. There is a feedback loop. The production of vitamin D is directly regulated by calcium, phosphate and calcitriol (that is the end product vitamin D product of the kidneys). On this topic of calcium and phosphate concentration in the blood, the whole system is under the control of the parathyroid. "A fall in the concentration of calcium in the bloodstream is detected by the parathyroid glands, which then produce parathyroid hormone. Parathyroid hormone increases the activity of the enzyme (catalyst) that produces active vitamin D. " So you see the feedback loop. The parathyroid is the bit wrapped around the edge of the thyroid gland. And I have had half of mine removed. I know I have to be wary of calcium as a supplement is incompatible with one of my medications. So the Mg thing will have to be researched thoroughly before I would consider adding it to my list. However, I am grateful for the info.

Thanks again

wendyloish

Posted Mon 14 Jan 2019 11.16am by Jeannette50

Hi Wendy,

I know about the calcium - but it is unusual for anyone to be deficient in this. In terms of reducing acidity (topical) I have been applying apc in the last 24hrs and this has really reduced the bumps on my scalp. I believe P (and many other skin conditions) are multi-factorial, but likely to be kicked off by a baseline over acidity in the gut hence Stress being a factor as it depletes the production of prostaglandins. Once you have this acidity it is ideal for fungi to grow and some bacteria prefer more acidic conditions (though for most a neutral PH is ideal). It is good to learn and get in control of your own health :)

Posted Mon 14 Jan 2019 10.14pm by wendyloish

Hi Jeannette50,

I think you will find that fungi do not like an acidic environment. I remember when I lived in Townsville many years ago I got tropical ear (a fungus) and it was treated with acetic acid ear drops. Of course there are many different fungi, but I got the impression then from the doctors that lowering pH was a sure fire way to deal with all types of fungi that love to grow in the wet season in the tropics.

And there are bacteria that can survive in any pH, from highly acidic to highly basic. Think of helicobacter pylori the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers and lives in the stomach (which contains 0.5% hydrochloric acid).

So my own opinion is that the pH of the gut is unlikely to be particularly significant. I know that a great deal is being done on the gut biome, and that the impact on the balance of different organisms has been found to be significant, but I think that the problem and the relationship to autoimmune disease is more complicated than just adjusting the pH of your gut.

I think of my gut as I think of my skin. In fact they are in many ways the same. Think of how if you put certain things on your skin you will get a reaction, inflammation, Your skin is covered in bacteria and fungi (or at least spores) and manages very well to combat them. But in the presence of certain substances you may have a reaction. Perhaps an allergic response, or less but an inflammation response none the less. if you continue with the application of this irritant the body will learn to deal with this by changing the type of cells present at the site of this inflammation, so that you end up with simultaneous destruction and healing of the affected tissue. it is the same in the gut.

The question then becomes what is causing the chronic inflammation response? The answer to that is difficult to determine. Certain bacteria or fungi? Certain of their byproducts from living, growing, reproducing? Some introduced chemicals like gluten/gliadin, lactose or fructose? An imbalance in the endocrine system? All of these? A combination of them? There are many scientific minds working on these questions. But they are complex.

While the scientific community searches for the answers, my answer is to have taken personal control of the factors that I can influence. The standout one is controlling what I put into my gut. I eliminated foods which were known to be inflammation causing. There was a cascade of results such as relieving the pain in my back and joints and allowing my body to get back some of its flexibility, my reflux disappeared, I slept properly.

I think you are right in that it is good to learn and get some control, but as yet there are still so many answers before we really understand what is going on.

wendyloish

Posted Mon 14 Jan 2019 11.39pm by Jeannette50

Hi Wendy,

Sorry if I was unclear but APC vinegar is one that in fact reduces acidity: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/38jzBcHNHD1jWpLtVybgj20/is-apple-cider-vinegar-really-good-for-me

See abstract below re the reason I believe it is out of sync gut bacteria is due to the many forums I have scrutinized and a good number of folk who have changed their diets, eliminated various skin conditions including P and reintroduced foods. Sometimes they can do this fully with no recurrence while at others certain foods appear to disrupt the system again. Big triggers are pretty much known to be stress and illness (esp. antibiotics that disrupt gut bacteria).

The abstract below probably explains my ideas better. As it says "Moreover, it has recently become obvious that alterations of these gut microbial communities can cause immune dysregulation, leading to autoimmune disorders."

From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3337124/

Abstract

"Keeping a delicate balance in the immune system by eliminating invading pathogens, while still maintaining self-tolerance to avoid autoimmunity, is critical for the body’s health. The gut microbiota that resides in the gastrointestinal tract provides essential health benefits to its host, particularly by regulating immune homeostasis. Moreover, it has recently become obvious that alterations of these gut microbial communities can cause immune dysregulation, leading to autoimmune disorders. Here we review the advances in our understanding of how the gut microbiota regulates innate and adaptive immune homeostasis, which in turn can affect the development of not only intestinal but also systemic autoimmune diseases. Exploring the interaction of gut microbes and the host immune system will not only allow us to understand the pathogenesis of autoimmune diseases but will also provide us new foundations for the design of novel immuno- or microbe-based therapies."

As all microbes can alter faster than we can learn how to defeat the ones we don't want I doubt that we will ever totally conquer them. But we can hope.

Posted Tue 15 Jan 2019 2.08am by wendyloish

Oh Jeanette,

I have looked at the apple cider vinegar question before. There are threads in the forum on it. I concluded then that the increase in acid in the stomach may have been aiding digestion, thus reducing the problem of undigested matter in the gut, and so lowering the problem of poorly digested food and unhelpful bacteria being fed by it. When I thought about what the underlying cause might be, it seemed to me to be certain foods which have been identified as "inflammation causing", the foods which I was eliminating from my diet. I thought that the the increase in acid might be an alternative way to achieving what I had. But my own system, I thought, was too damaged (Irritable bowel diagnosis of over 20 years standing) to just be able to rectify my problems with a tweak in stomach acidity.

Just a thought, also, why do you think that an increase in stomach acidity would automatically increase the acidity of the gut? This could only happen if all the acid was not used in the stomach breakdown process. Do you have research information on the pH of gut contents or poo? Especially relevant would be if there was a comparison with and without the addition of the organic acid to the diet.

I have posted on the leaky gut hypothesis more than once. Have you seen these postings?

Sorry I have not yet had time to look at your references. I will do so tomorrow.

wendyloish

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